Accepting Friends At Cyber Value October 24, 2011
Posted by nrhatch in Blogging, People, Writing & Writers.trackback
Wikipedia ~ Pinocchio (in Public Domain)
In the real world, we learn to accept others at “face value,” but what about cyber friends we’ve never met in person?
Those, we must accept at “cyber value” since we have no other frame of reference.
Andalib Marks is a case in point.
At first, I accepted who she said she was without question.
Over time, she began to seem more like a soap opera caricature than a real live girl.
A bit like Pinocchio.
Despite my misgivings, I accepted what she shared without worrying much about whether it stemmed from fact or fiction.
Others did the same.
And then the house of cards Andi built started to collapse. So she headed for the exit . . . taking her tall tales with her.
At that point, one after another of Andi’s readers came forward to say . . . “I’m not sure that she ever really existed.”
Must have been disheartening for her creator, eh?
No rules . . . just write!
E. L. Doctorow opined that . . . “Writing is a socially acceptable form of schizophrenia.”
Do you agree?
Related posts: When A Cyber Friend Goes Missing * She’s B~A~C~K!!! * When A Cyber Friend “Dies” * There’s Naught So Queer As Folk * Horcruxes & The Deathly Hallows * I Don’t Care Anymore
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Spirit Lights The Way 
Did her “brothers” answer your message or send a pic to the other blogger who asked for it?
No one has come forward with any actual evidence that Andi existed . . . except as a caricature of imagination. 😉
Nancy, one of the biggest rules of this space, for me, is honesty. I don’t have to share everything about myself, but what I do put out here is going to be real. I wish more people did likewise, but I tend to stick with those people who do it real.
I feel the same. I don’t get too “caught up” in people’s “cyber problems” because it’s impossible to gauge the veracity of many claims they make.
Instead, I focus on sharing the “best parts of myself” with those who are interested ~ tips on being happier and living life without constant obeisance to ego concerns.
I usually have a very acute bullsh*t radar, but this person seems to have had a knack for drawing people in. As I commented before, it makes me livid 😦
Until I read your comment this morning, I hadn’t thought of Andi in weeks. While responding to your comment, the title of this post popped into view.
If nothing else, Andi serves as a warning that people (especially in cyber space) are not always as they seem.
we had one like that. the final dissolution really hurt one blogger. a good person who got sucked in to the fantasy, passed on messages from ‘family’ and was reviled by those who had realised it was all a fraud. so sad.
and now you have had one as well
It’s interesting to observe people’s reactions to finding they’ve bought into a fraudulent fantasy.
Some refuse to believe it (not wanting to own their gullibility) . . .
Some get angry at the perpetrator . . .
Others get angry at the messenger . . .
A few shrug it off as the “cost of doing business . . .
In part, our reaction stems from how much emotion we “invested” in the farce. If we take everything about everyone else in cyber space with a “grain of salt” . . . we don’t feel we’ve been had so we can keep on keeping on. 😉
I wonder. Would there be some other reason for Andalib to fake her own death? There was more to her life than just her writing. After all, while we are all writers, there is more to each of our lives, than the amount of time we devote to our writing; so I wonder what else was going on with Andalib?
Is it possible that she is in actual danger, and that she’s gone into “deep hiding”? Is she in a Witness Protection Program, and had to cut off all links to everybody?
I’m only speculating, but If that’s what’s happened, I find it comforting to hope so.
Using our imaginations to create “best case scenarios” is an excellent idea, William.
As long as we remember we are only “speculating.” 😉
I hope you remember that you are also “only speculating”.
I received my final e-mail from andalib on Saturday, October 1st.
Here is what it says:
———————————-
Hey MrB!!
Sorry I haven’t gotten back to you sooner. Harry and I are having a blast in Boston and have just stopped for lunch and I thought I’d email you quickly while we wait for our food!!
I hope and pray that you’ll make a killing with the book so that you can come to my party! If not, I’ll send a cab for you and have one drop you off again – at no charge to you. I’ll spring for a costume for you too! How about a dapper suit? I’d really like to have you there – if you’re interested.
Let me know, OK!
Well, we should be back in NY on Monday afternoon and I’ll be posting photos and a post on my blog on Tuesday or Wednesday!
Plus, I have some stunningly wonderful news to share!!!
But, only when we get back!!
Much love as always, MrB.
Your friend, Andi.
———————————
If Andalib was just a hoax, why would she have invited me to her party, and been so excessively extravagant?
We can afford to be “excessively extravagent” when we don’t plan to be around to make good on our “promises.” 🙄
I’m beginning to realize that this journey into a virtual world is fraught with danger, if you don’t protect yourself. Protection, however, does not mean lying or hiding from the liars, but just being cautious before you get sucked in too deeply.
It makes me sad.
That’s one reason why I prefer blogs that share life’s lessons rather than those that dwell on personal misfortune and daily drama.
When we read blogs to learn and share, rather than to connect, there’s less danger of getting sucked into the maelstrom of a fictional and non-existent life.
Just like in “real” life, there are the good, the bad, and the ugly out in cyberspace. Unfortunately, cyber “friendships” provide a convenient mask or veil for the deceptive among us. I’d like to think it’s not as easy person-to-person.
It happens in “real life” too . . . how many people have had mass murderers living next door to them without suspecting a thing?
After the news hits the airwaves, one neighbor after another comes forward to say, “He seemed like a nice man. Quiet though.”
This is still bothering you I see.
Nope. Not at all. It’s has never bothered me . . .
Andi’s tales did seem worthy of exploration since many people are gullible and “latch on to cyber friends” as life-lines. It’s always a good idea to make sure that we are NOT grasping at thin air. 🙄
I too prefer blogs that share life’s lessons. Partly, I’m just not that interested in what you had for supper or what you wore to work today! ah, but tell me that the owl spoke your name, or the morning dew sprinkled delight upon you, or that you have learned, in silence, the richness of who you are – that I long to hear about and share with you.
walk in beauty this day.
Excellent thoughts, Joss. Bloggers who make their posts “relevant” to the “rest of us” are far more interesting than those who use their platforms solely to scream . . . “Look at ME!”
I feel the same about FB and Twitter updates that keep “the world” posted on what store or bar someone is sitting in at that particularly moment in time.
Seriously? Who cares?! 🙄
I could almost cry just now reading the posts of you two. All too often it feels awkward to be in a social setting and just not be able to carry on about the mundane notes of life. Never considered myself one to feel ‘left out’ and yet it seems it’s happened more recently in the everyday world.
Feeling in a space of longing something deeper as well. Your words speak to my heart. Thank you Joss for guiding me here through your ‘Who’ poetry post. xo
My “best friends” are those who care to delve a bit deeper into the bittersweet nature of life.
Thanks for stopping by, Jackie.
It’s a difficult one!
When I moved to Portugal I met many expats through forums. We were all in a similar situation and looking to make friends. However, it was strange to separate the cyber persona they had created and balance my expectations with the real person. Some of these people I had been corresponding with for a few years before we met. Some I never did meet and I always wondered if they were trolls looking for info and to try and make a fast buck as introducers.
I went to a party once and we were talking about forums and I was asked my cyber name. I told her it was Piglet. The woman then started to screech. Oh my God it’s Piglet I’m so pleased to meet you and then went off to search for her husband. screeching “It’s Piglet, meet Piglet”
I was mortified as everyone turned to look at me.
That’s wonderful, PiP! If I met you at a party . . . I would do the same! “Piglet! It’s Piglet!” 😀
I agree – I would too! Love that story, Pip!
Imagine backing into each other at a party . . . PiP? Robyn? {{dancing in circles}} Yay! Hurrah! Huzzah!
I just don’t understand a person’s motive for doing this type of thing. I mean, are they honestly mentally ill? I really don’t understand. I didn’t know this person, but it sounds like whomever it was had a knack for attracting caring peersons. So sad. But, I’m glad for you that you realized it and shared this good lesson for us! 😀
Some people must be rather starved for attention . . . so they create fictional tapestries to attract readers. Odd, eh?
When I shared my suspicions about Andi with those who “knew” her on WEbook, most agreed that something had never been quite real about her . . . the rest told me to SHUT UP! They put their hands over their ears and insisted that Andi existed because they had e-mailed each other! LOL! 🙄
Getting an e-mail from a cyber buddy only proves that somewhere in cyber space, a monkey, ape, chimpanzee, or gorilla is sitting at a keyboard typing. 😛
LOL!! Yep, even my kitten can walk across my keyboard and type characters. 😀
Tigger can “play” the piano! 😀
So, the non-sagacious saga continues, I guess. At least in some people’s minds. I bear absolutely no ill will toward Andi (or whoever). I thoroughly enjoyed our correspondence, and have missed it since she has been gone. Mainly, because I am responding to the person I have met through their blog or e-mail. If it’s fictional, so be it. I see no reason to ponder if the person is real or not, because I don’t think it matters.
However, I do understand how people who invest themselves so deeply in a so-called “relationship” might have felt so hurt and betrayed. It’s sort of like the post I did early on in my “career” that talked about “friendship” v. FB (or other cyber-) friendship.” To me they are two completely different things.
I call you my cyber-friend – because you are, and I hope you feel the same about me, but really, Nancy – what do you know about me but what I have told you? And what do I know about you? I see no reason to take you at anything other than face value. When we meet in person and you find out I am a 400-lb., 7-1/2′-tall male transvestite, who has never been sick or had any surgery (but probably needs a lobotomy), I don’t necessarily expect you to be upset or disappointed. I would be surprised, however, if you didn’t ROFLYAO!
And if and when I finally meet you face-to-face, I might be surprised to find you actually live in a hovel in Hell’s Kitchen in NYC, walk the streets with your old shopping cart collecting stray kittens and puppies, but I will probably think, “WOW! Is she a great writer, or what?” No reason to feel betrayed by you – just entertained, amused, and yes, even enlightened!
On going over my comment here, I realize that I sound argumentative. I am not feeling that way at all – I don’t think you will disagree with most of what I’ve written here. I just felt the need to share a bit about what I perceive in the sadness, confusion, and/or anger felt by some. It seems like a lot of wasted energy – take the bloggers as they come. Enjoy or don’t what they write. None of it really matters in the final analysis – as long as you are not expecting any more from the writer than what they have given you.
True friendships that grow out of cyber-friendships might be rare, yet they can happen, but it takes more than a blog or e-mail relationship to make it grow.
I agree with you completely, PTC!
Anytime we get ATTACHED to the stories we create in our minds about the people we know, we set ourselves up for disappointment when we find out THEY are NOT as we pictured them to be.
The same happens when we fall “in love” with an image of our own creation . . . rather than seeing the object of our affection as she or he really is. When our eyes are finally opened, the bloom falls off the rose.
BTW: As for your description of me . . . a bag lady who talks to cats, eh? Well, I never! 😛
Everyone knows Nancy prefers birds!
Hey Ric! I didn’t say she PREFERRED kittens and puppies, I said she collected the stray ones. Who knows what she does with them? Maybe she uses them for bird food! (Shame on you Nancy!)
You guys IS funny! 😆
WOW! That must be a first! NRH agrees with PTC COMPLETELY!
BTW, I didn’t imply that you talk to the kittens and puppies. As I told Ric – maybe you just collect them for other nefarious purposes. When we meet, I’ll find out!
Now I know you don’t live in NYC – otherwise you would have written “youse guys.” Maybe I’ll meet you in Newark!
I’m a regular Dr. Doolittle . . . talking to the animals! 😀
I guess, for the greater part, I’ve been lucky over the years with my cyber-friends/acquaintances. Combination of elements, but …
Most of my online friends became friends through another group of people. As with any group, there are people I quite like, people I’m indifferent to, and people I dislike. Even the ones I may dislike, on occasion, proffer forth some wheat from their usual chaff, so add value.
I hold no illusions that I’m universally loved and revered, my every word hung upon like gospel. We … the people I dislike and those who dislike me … exist together in a mutually agreed detente. Do I question their existence outside cyber-space? No, but as Nancy wrote, “Seriously? Who cares?
The people about whom I might care, met or not, have furnished me with telephone numbers, addresses, we’ve exchanged care packages … I’m convinced they exist in the real world. One of my longest cyber-friendships is approaching 16 years. Never met, but I’ve lived through a lot with her over that time, spoken with her on the phone, send her goodies from here, and bless her heart, she sends me goodies from there. I’m up on her hubby, a cyber-friend of shorter duration but still a friend, their blended family, their extended family (Missy is a collector of people) … I could drop in unannounced tomorrow and be right at home. Do I trust she’s real? You betcha.
It doesn’t always go that way. Lots of people, for whatever reason, delight in screwing with others for their own amusement. Most of the cyber-friends I’ve made are genuine. The rest? Seriously? Who cares?
Excellent points, crumbl.
I’m a relative “newbie” to the cyber world. I first ventured into on-line writing in July 2008. So, it’s not been long at all.
From the start, I refused to get sucked into daily dramas created by angst ridden writers who wanted to share the irrelevant minutiae of life with anyone who would listen.
I would respond with a “tut tut” or a “there there” without getting caught up in the whirlpool they seemed to want to create around them. Others, in contrast, jumped in to save these souls from “drowning” and risked drowing themselves in the process.
Andi’s saga started two years ago. Many people got sucked into the details of her fabricated life. Most now believe that she never existed. A few are hanging onto the fiction and feel that the rest of us are “stomping on her grave.”
Andi’s death, unlike her life, was far too clean for it to have been anything other than a fiction writer’s effort to tie up all the loose ends before having disappear into the cyber sunset.
You’re so right. Some people do “delight in screwing with others for their own amusement.” Odd lot, that. 😆
The less we are fooled by the cyber mirages in our lives, the better off we will be. 😀
I wonder if the whole thing might have been more of an experiement in sociology, than a perpetration. The anger, the ruffled feathers, may have been an unintenioned result.
I hesitate to call the person who masked as Andi as a villain. We may be looking at an author doing research.
The fact is, right, wrong, good, evil, I have no way of knowing.
I agree with you, in part . . . pulling at people’s heartstrings with the fictional characters we create in stories is one thing ~ experimenting with people’s emotions by creating the illusion that our fictional characters are real (when they are not) is rather sleezy.
Andi’s creator should “come clean” and “spill the beans” now that her character has been “killed off.”
Not owning up to what he’s done is cowardice.
I have been online for about 15 years and have met many cyber friends, honest folks that I had the pleasure to connect to and even meet offline. I tend to think that most people say who they are, but of course, I use my discernment online and offline as well.
Same here, Marie. I’ve had far more good experiences than bad . . . and have spoken and met with several cyber friends in real life and lived to tell the tale. 😀
Most people are exactly (or mostly) who they say they are. A few are not. As long as we don’t get “too attached” to people we’ve never met, fictional beings, like Andi, are harmless.
They’ll come and go . . . ebb and flow . . . and our lives will continue on as before. 😀
The internet is a scary place. So is the real world, but online, a lot of weird people become even crazier. I’ve had a few bad experiences, but fortunately 99.9 of the human beings I’ve interacted it with, are just fine…phew (oh and the nutters ALWAYS give themselves away, sooner or later…)
On WEbook, there was a fellow who claimed to live in Ireland. He made many other fictional claims as well. He loved pulling emotional responses from kind-hearted readers.
When I pointed out an internal consistency in some of his claims, he started to cyber-stalk me, making nasty comments on my posts and sending outrageous e-mails.
In response, I posted his e-mails where his other “friends” would see them . . . so they would have a better sense of who they were dealing with. He finally shut up and disappeared from cyber view.
I don’t miss him. 😛
Yikes! Yeah, I’ve had similar things happen to me…but at the moment, my life is nutter free lol
Same here, Alannah! “Nutter free” is a great way to be. 😉
“The fact remains we have no way of knowing”
so true
I,too, am a newbie, only started last year after a successful career in nursing and raising a family started together.
I appreciate this post and the comments as I use is as a lesson. I am just forming cyber friendships and have no way of judging truth from fiction. Right now it’s take it as face value.
There are ways of judging fact from fiction. When we read books, some characters “make sense” to us in light of everything we know about the world. Others don’t. They seem caricatures rather than real people ~ stainless steel heroines fabricated from imagination rather than whole cloth.
My motivation for resurrecting Andi’s image today has to do with Ego and its attachment to expectations. If we EXPECT that everything we read is TRUE . . . then Ego gets angry or sad or disheartened when we find out that we were DUPED.
In contrast, if we do not get too attached to what we “learn” about others . . . we can go with the flow and roll with the punches. If they exist with lives as claimed, fine. If not, also OK.
I was just thinking about this story today, how strange that it has reared its head again.
I still think the story will appear for publication. I won’t be reading it though, as I don’t read fiction. I’ll prime my DH – he does, 😆
Until I read Cindy’s comment this morning, I hadn’t thought of Andi in weeks. While responding to her comment, the title of this post popped into view.
If nothing else, Andi serves as a warning that people (especially in cyber space) are not always as they seem.
[…] post was inspired by Spirit Lights the Way, a most delightful blog where a host of us commented on “Accepting Friends at Cyber […]
This is delightful, Joss! Often, our conversations with others barely skim the surface of “who we are.”
Thanks for the shout out.
I think she’s a woman with such a boring life, she decided to make one up (or maybe it just gradually happened). Anyway, it just shows how easy it is although why any sane person would do it I have no idea!
While she was “alive,” I accepted her at “face value” without getting emotionally entwined in her outrageous stories.
How utterly exhausting…and very very sad!
I agree . . . but I feel that about much of the self-created drama I see around me. People who get their knickers in a knot because someone cut them off in traffic. Or who hang on to grudges for days, weeks, months, and even years over some minor infraction. It’s exhausting, unnecessary, and waste of time and energy for all concerned.
We travel best when we travel light . . . just let it all go. 😀
This writer is getting tremendous coverage on your blog – for free!
I did not read her blog – never even went for a peek. The whole issue reminds me of the lessons people had to learn about electronic match-making in the early days. The big #1 rule was to meet as soon as possible. The written word and the readers’ perceptions can be far too powerful without a chance to size up the chemistry.
You’d be one tough bag lady, Nancy. I’d certainly never try to “borrow” your piece of cardboard! 😀
That’s good advice about electronic matchmaking ~ meet up, face to face. See whether they are a cardboard hog, or not. 😉
The cyber-world is a useful place to exchange ideas, test your creative writing skills and learn from others, but it is no substitute for the real world and our non-cyber relationships. Sadly, I think that some mistakenly believe that it is and that is why they take it so personally when someone like Andalib turns out to be a complete construct. While it is true that sometimes bloggers will meet in person and form friendships, it is probably rare – I’m with you Nancy – don’t get too emotionally involved and let it go when things are not what they seem. In short, get a life!
Yes, indeed. I have met one blogging friend in person, and have chatted with a few on the phone, but the time we’ve spent together is a very small fraction of the whole of our lives.
Perspective is key. Thanks, BlueBee! 😀
I tend to shy away from blogs which concentrate heavily on the author’s problems. Not interesting.
‘Writing is a socially acceptable form of schizophrenia.’ Many people aren’t who they seem (even one’s husband can turn out to be someone you find you don’t actually know!) but that’s particularly true of the internet. We can all be ‘who we want’. I hope I choose the ‘real’ too but at the end of the day who knows?! A healthy distance is probably the best form of protection.
Same here, EB. I don’t mind hearing about an occasional *blip* on the radar (especially if the blogger has maintained a sense of humor about it) but if every other post is full of doom, gloom, and misery about This, That, and The Other Thing . . . I lose interest.
Some bloggers say they need to “vent” and get things “off their chest” and that writing about IT makes them feel better. OK, but it doesn’t make ME feel better. Just like the audiences who marched out of Charlie Sheen’s One-Man-Bitch-Fest, I don’t have to sit in the blog bleachers to watch cyber meltdowns. 🙄
Even in cyber space, it pays to set “boundaries.”
What has struck me the most is that no one said anything until you pointed it out.
I expect that’s because, while Andi was still “alive,” no one (including me) wanted to point a finger in her cyber-face and say, “You’re NOT real. You’re just a Pinocchio!”
We harbored our secret doubts and “accepted her at cyber value.” 😉
Wow… I’m new to blogging and never heard of Andi. You’ve got my curiosity peaked now. I just never bother to worry about people like that.. Karma will take care of things for me:)
Nice blog btw!!
Karma is a wonderful thing! We get what we give. 😀
Thanks for stopping by, JAS!
I think it all comes down to one’s motivation for writing: and it’s different for different people. Some do it for attention – I’ve always thought Martin Amis comes from this school – some for fellowship, and some, like Sidey, who ‘simply find they must write’. I’ve always loved her take on things. Maybe the person behind Andi just craved an audience for a while.
You hit the keyboard squarely on the {{SHIFT}} button, Kate. Or, maybe, the ESC key. 😛
Many in the blogosphere seem devoted to the task of gleaning cyber-space for attention. They aren’t terribly invested in sharing items of interest to others . . . they just want to be SEEN in every ACT and SCENE on our Cyber Screen. 🙄
They are, of course, entitled to do whatever they wish on their blogs. But . . . I am becoming more and more circumspect about remaining in the audience of attention seekers.
I want real “value” for my time and energy. I want to learn something or be entertained or laugh out loud. I’m not interested in watching cyber melt-downs on a daily basis.
Hi Nancy – sounds like a conundrum but maybe not a mystery. People come and go on the ‘Interweb’ – I signed up on Facebook for a while but found it wasn’t quite me so I’ve signed out. Am I now a missing person? Probably not – most of the people I was in contact with there know they can find me on Flickr or here instead.
People leave social media for a variety of reasons – in my case I was fed up with people on facebook trying to get me to join in with silly games – what’s wrong with just sticking with normal ‘hi – how are you’ type messages or more serious conversations? I don’t want to help them buy an electronic sheep for their mythical farm but I’m more than happy to say well done for their real life newly redecorated hallway!
It’s good to read what people have to say though – I enjoy that. But I don’t get surprised if occasionally people decide to turn themselves off. It’s just cyberspace and if we have no evidence of a body I don’t see what we can do. In the majority of cases it will just be creative issues rather than something more sinister.
And, finally – are you testing the reality of the rest of us 😉
Andi didn’t just leave . . . her “brothers” sent several of us an e-mail saying that she’d been killed in a car accident, the memorial service had been held, her ashes had been scattered, her cat had settled in at her parents, etc.
All very neat and tidy . . . but the message was peculiar in many respects ~ including the fact that it was sent to people the “brothers” had never met just 3 days after Andi’s alleged demise. It sounded like the last chapter in a novel when the author is anxious to tie up all the loose ends before the credits roll. 🙄
And, yes, I am carefully evaluating each of your on-line personas to determine whether any other Pinocchios are alive and well and residing on WP. 😉
LOL….I must say, some of these comments are quite amusing. What a cute following on this blog. xo
Glad you enjoyed, Jackie. I find the comments more entertaining than my posts. 😀
I’ve been meaning to talk to you about some oceanfront property in Arizona. Oh shoot you’re in Florida!
Bwahaha! Oceanfront property is at a premium in Arizona. 😎